Huh? - dr.bedlow

I normally wouldn't comment to something like this but there's a couple things about this post that scares ME. Starting with #2:

>2. There appears to be no simple way to exclude subfolders from a sync operation.

Simply select the file or folder in the Analyze panel and invoke the "Exclude" command. A big "X" icon appears and that item is forever excluded from the sync. There's even a tip on the website with the not-so-subtle title "Excluding a File or Folder". This is ChronoSync 101 stuff.

Now on to #1:

>1. If CS encounters an error during sync, you are given the option of "excluding" the file in question. What is not mentioned is that this exclusion is permanent:

This is just a shortcut to the "Exclude" command mentioned above, which the reviewer obviously didn't know about. There is also the option to "Skip", which is just a one-time deal.


Also in #1:

> Worse, there is no way to get a list of these files,

Well, if "Verbose logging" is turned on, the message "Excluding :-> xxxxx" (where xxxxx is the file or folder that was just excluded) appears in the log for all exclusions. You can also run an analysis report or poke around in the Analyze panel looking for those "X" icons.


Still from #1:

> nor is there any way to reset or clear the list.

The "Include" command, likewise invoked from the Analyze panel, is the opposite of "Exclude".


Now on to #3:

> The basic sync operation doesn't appear to work correctly ... I've seen CS try to re-sync entire folders of JPG photos for no good reason.

There's always a reason - it usually has something to do with what sync triggers and other settings are in effect. For instance, if the owner/group trigger is enabled and you sync to a volume for which this cannot be preserved, ChronoSync may be tricked into thinking an attribute sync is necessary. Not that this is the case here, but without filing a support incident with more details, it's impossible to comment on this.


Also from #3:

> which other tools ensure me are fully in-sync

Many other tools will not use the meta data to trigger a sync. ChronoSync can do this and will automatically apply just the attributes, if that's all that changed. Of course, this is optional - if you only want to look at modification dates, you can.


Last, on to #4:

> There is a "Trial Sync" option in one location and an "Analyze" option elsewhere which appear to do the same things (show what needs to be done). However, they use a different UI, and (worse) give different results!

Well, they're not intended to do the same thing although there is some overlap. One is mainly for configuring your sync and the other is for previewing what is actually going to occur when you sync - hence "Analyze" is more adept at manipulating a hierarchy of files than "Trial Sync" is.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion and ChronoSync certainly isn't going to satisfy the needs of every user out there, but there are some fundamental mistakes in this post that lead me to question just how thoroughly this reviewer understands the product.

There are well over 20,000 paid users of this product and if these experiences were typical we'd be just overwhelmed with tech support (not to mention there would be a lot more negative comments here on VT). I urge anyone experiencing any kind of problem with ChronoSync to contact tech support, even if you're simply evaluating the product. EIther you don't fully grok the product or there is a real flaw - in both cases, no one is served by not getting in touch with us!

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Friday, September 08 2006 @ 04:54 PM PDT

Re; Huh? - dr.bedlow

BTW, I have no idea why the username "dr. bedlow" appears next to my post - my real username should be "mbpd". Must be a screwed up cookie or something...

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Friday, September 08 2006 @ 05:03 PM PDT

Evaluate Carefully Before Use - DrTimHill

OK, I'd like to look at your rebuttal one item at a time...

>2. There appears to be no simple way to exclude subfolders from a sync operation.

Simply select the file or folder in the Analyze panel and invoke the "Exclude" command. A big "X" icon appears and that item is forever excluded from the sync. There's even a tip on the website with the not-so-subtle title "Excluding a File or Folder". This is ChronoSync 101 stuff.

Fine, I'll try this. Note, however, that when I searched help for "Excluding" I got 0 hits (none). When I search under "Exclude" I get a Q&A hint that indicates that I need to use Analyze. I have not looked at your Web site.

BUT this really underlines my point about the UI. If you need to have a Q&A and hints on the web site, then the UI is broken. Question: Given two buttons: "Rules" and "Analyze", which would YOU choose as the most likely to handle folder include/exclude? And since, when you get to Rules, there are indeed all sorts of include/exclude options, why is folder include/exclude (apparently the most common, since it's "ChronoSync 101") not in this list? I also note in passing that the online help makes NO mention of the persistence of this setting. Does it happen once? For all sync operations? What happens if the folder is deleted from the source? What happens if it moves? Online help is silent on all these behaviors.

>1. If CS encounters an error during sync, you are given the option of "excluding" the file in question. What is not mentioned is that this exclusion is permanent:

This is just a shortcut to the "Exclude" command mentioned above, which the reviewer obviously didn't know about. There is also the option to "Skip", which is just a one-time deal.

OK, but where is this explained? No mention is made that I can find that the exclude is persistent. How am I, a "poor user" supposed to figure this out? And I *did* figure it out the only way that was possible; by careful trial and error experimentation (and a lot of wasted time).

> Worse, there is no way to get a list of these files,

Well, if "Verbose logging" is turned on, the message "Excluding :-> xxxxx" (where xxxxx is the file or folder that was just excluded) appears in the log for all exclusions. You can also run an analysis report or poke around in the Analyze panel looking for those "X" icons.

Are you serious? I logged this issue as a bug some months ago. I'm supposed to "poke around" through thousands of files and folders looking for little "X"s??? Or grind through a log file? In my book, this is called a "work-around", not a feature.

> nor is there any way to reset or clear the list.

The "Include" command, likewise invoked from the Analyze panel, is the opposite of "Exclude".

I said "clear", not edit. This would be easy if there were some way to show the definitive list of exlcuded folders. However, there isn't: I have to hunt and peck through a huge list in the Analyze pane.

> The basic sync operation doesn't appear to work correctly ... I've seen CS try to re-sync entire folders of JPG photos for no good reason.

There's always a reason - it usually has something to do with what sync triggers and other settings are in effect. For instance, if the owner/group trigger is enabled and you sync to a volume for which this cannot be preserved, ChronoSync may be tricked into thinking an attribute sync is necessary. Not that this is the case here, but without filing a support incident with more details, it's impossible to comment on this.

OK, how do I discover what is triggering this? There might always be a reason, but if I cannot audit, how am I supposed to distinguish operator error from unexpected app behavior?

But I stand by my argument: something is wrong. If I run a sync with no errors against a quiescent dataset, then I would expect that a second sync should not need to do anything. Either the first sync was wrong (it should have reported a failure to finish the sync) or the second sync is wrong (it should not have anything to do). You can't have it both ways. There may ALWAYS be a reason for doing a copy, but if that reason is because the previous sync failed to finish correctly and yet did not report this, then you have a problem.

> There is a "Trial Sync" option in one location and an "Analyze" option elsewhere which appear to do the same things (show what needs to be done). However, they use a different UI, and (worse) give different results!

Well, they're not intended to do the same thing although there is some overlap. One is mainly for configuring your sync and the other is for previewing what is actually going to occur when you sync - hence "Analyze" is more adept at manipulating a hierarchy of files than "Trial Sync" is.

So, you're agreeing with me? (hehe)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and ChronoSync certainly isn't going to satisfy the needs of every user out there, but there are some fundamental mistakes in this post that lead me to question just how thoroughly this reviewer understands the product.

OK, apparently you work for Econ. And I'm a customer. I made it clear at the end of my post I felt CS was very close to being an excellent product, but had some (imho) significant flaws. What I see in your rebuttal is "oh no, another ignorant customer who doesn't understand the subtle wonders of our product!". This is a dangerous attitude, imho. For example, instead of ragging on how dumb I am not to understand what the "Exclude" button does, a little thought might lead you to realize that simply changing the button to read "Permanently Exclude" would instantly clear up the issue.

And instead of spending time adding Q&A and web site hints about excluding folders, perhaps adding note text right in the "Rules" pane that files and folders can also be included in the Analyze pane might help.

Anyway, we'll probably never agree: I think CS needs work, you don't. That's really where it's going to stand, I think.

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Friday, September 08 2006 @ 08:32 PM PDT