Why Does It Need an Installer? - Robert Sharp--2008

I think you're panicking unnecessarily. All the installer does is deposit an application on your desktop for you to transfer to your application folder. Required files are deposited in your Library/Application Support folder and you can choose where to file your Collection files (I keep mine in Documents). And that's it. Easy, no problem, no hassle. And the software's been upgraded to Version 2 today. It's worth checking out. I've now been using it for a year and it gives me everything I want. You can afford to be paranoid about software lurking on some dodgy p2p server, but not with this.

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Tuesday, February 20 2007 @ 10:25 AM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Alex_6

> I think you're panicking unnecessarily.

Who's panicking?

> All the installer does is deposit an
> application on your desktop for you to
> transfer to your application folder.

Then why use an installer at all? Apple's "Software Delivery Guide" states quite clearly: "A manual install is the preferred delivery solution because it offers the simplest install experience for small or compact products, such as a single application package."

If the application is too complex for a manual install, then why not use the Apple installation package -- which provides to the user, among other things, a list of files to be installed and their destinations.

> You can afford to be paranoid about
> software lurking on some dodgy p2p server,
> but not with this.

If that's what you think, I have three words for you: Norton Disk Doctor.

Bottom line: This ain't Windows. There's no reason why this app should come as an installer. If others don't have to, this one doesn't either. And if the developers can't get that much right about what the Mac experience should be like, what else have they got wrong?

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Thursday, February 22 2007 @ 02:36 PM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Mark-Jan Harte

Hi Alex,

Today your comment was pointed out to me by one of our users. As the developer responsible for the installer, maybe I can clarify things.

* The software does need an installer, because it contains a number of files which are not stored in the .app package itself, but go in the /Library/Application Support/Music Collector/ folder. Other applications don't use external folders, but I don't really see why this would be an issue one way or the other.

* We use an installer package called FileStorm by MindVision (http://www.mindvision.com/filestorm_about.asp) because it is an easy-to-use product that does exactly what we needed. I'm sure there are other ways to install software, but since this seems to work fine we never saw any need to change it.

Hopefully this reduces your fear of the installer corrupting your system.

Mark-Jan Harte, Collectorz.com

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Wednesday, February 28 2007 @ 07:26 AM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Mark-Jan Harte

Hi Alex,

Today your comment was pointed out to me by one of our users. As the developer responsible for the installer, maybe I can clarify things.

* The software does need an installer, because it contains a number of files which are not stored in the .app package itself, but go in the /Library/Application Support/Music Collector/ folder. Other applications don't use external folders, but I don't really see why this would be an issue one way or the other.

* We use an installer package called FileStorm by MindVision (http://www.mindvision.com/filestorm_about.asp) because it is an easy-to-use product that does exactly what we needed. I'm sure there are other ways to install software, but since this seems to work fine we never saw any need to change it.

Hopefully this reduces your fear of the installer corrupting your system.

Mark-Jan Harte, Collectorz.com

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Wednesday, February 28 2007 @ 07:36 AM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Robert Sharp--2008

There's no need to be rude, mate, I was only trying to help.

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Wednesday, February 28 2007 @ 10:35 PM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Mark-Jan Harte

Hi Alex,

Today your comment was pointed out to me by one of our users. As the developer responsible for the installer, maybe I can clarify things.

* The software does need an installer, because it contains a number of files which are not stored in the .app package itself, but go in the /Library/Application Support/Music Collector/ folder. Other applications don't use external folders, but I don't really see why this would be an issue one way or the other.

* We use an installer package called FileStorm by MindVision (http://www.mindvision.com/filestorm_about.asp) because it is an easy-to-use product that does exactly what we needed. I'm sure there are other ways to install software, but since this seems to work fine we never saw any need to change it.

Hopefully this reduces your fear of the installer corrupting your system.

Mark-Jan Harte, Collectorz.com

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Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 05:54 AM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Mark-Jan Harte

Hi Alex,

Today your comment was pointed out to me by one of our users. As the developer responsible for the installer, maybe I can clarify things.

* The software does need an installer, because it contains a number of files which are not stored in the .app package itself, but go in the /Library/Application Support/Music Collector/ folder. Other applications don't use external folders, but I don't really see why this would be an issue one way or the other.

* We use an installer package called FileStorm by MindVision (http://www.mindvision.com/filestorm_about.asp) because it is an easy-to-use product that does exactly what we needed. I'm sure there are other ways to install software, but since this seems to work fine we never saw any need to change it.

Hopefully this reduces your fear of the installer corrupting your system.

Mark-Jan Harte, Collectorz.com

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Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 05:58 AM PST

Why Does It Need an Installer? - Alex_6

> Other applications don't use external folders

Actually, some do.

> but I don't really see why this would be an issue one way or the
> other.

It's not. The issue is that the user is not told what and where will be installed before installing.

The preferred method is manual install, with apps creating support files upon the first launch. If, for whatever reason, that's not practical, then the installer should provide a precise listing of what will be installed and where. If, for whatever reason, your preferred installer doesn't do that, one of the Read Me files should contain an up-to-date listing of every file (path included) which is going to be installed.

> Hopefully this reduces your fear of the installer corrupting your
> system.

I appreciate your concern, but the best way to do that is to provide the list. What exactly does the installer install, and where? This is YOUR application which is going to be installed on MY computer. Even if there were absolutely no reason to be concerned about corruption -- isn't providing this information an issue of basic courtesy and respect for the customer?

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Wednesday, March 07 2007 @ 05:04 PM PST

Then please list files installed - balancedview

I agree with Alex - in that I prefer to know before installation is done, what is going to be placed where.

A simple informational display at beginning of Installer, and a short text document stating What Is Installed Where (and maybe Why) would be Great.
For those of us who want to know, we would read and be happy (and could choose to do or not).

For those who do not care to know those details, they can ignore that info. Still happy.

Part of my concern, similar to his, are those applications which use installers to place frameworks, hidden files, whatever all over the place without telling you. Those pieces then make it hard to have your computer get back to the way you want, esp. if you decide to remove the program if it is not what you really expected. An example besides Norton include the Stuffit MagicMenu, and similar products. etc.

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Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:59 PM PST

Then please list files installed - tod3

Apparently the developer isn't too familiar with the Mac way of life - that things can be done automagically, as someone else mentioned, the first time an application is launched. Unless you're going to created files willy-nilly all over the Library, System, Application and Document folders, you don't need an installer. This isn't some massively-complex application that needs to insert its extraneous files here and there like is done in Windows.

Windows users might put up with all the garbage that gets loaded via installers simply because that's the Bill Gates Way. But in the Mac world, we don't like stuff hidden from us, and that's why some of us are asking at least for a list of the files being installed and where they go.

When we want to uninstall an application, it should be as easy as dragging the app to the trash but with apps like this, we have no idea where to find the extraneous stuff so they can be deleted as well.

And you know, this is just one of three "collectors" apps - who knows what the other two install, or if the extra files work together or not, or even what the extra files are for with all three of them.

And as has been pointed out by Alex, the Apple dev guidelines state that simple drag and drop is the best way for apps like this.

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Saturday, January 26 2008 @ 12:00 AM PST

Then please list files installed - tod3

One further comment about installers vs. drag and drop: Many many Mac applications are not simply single files; rather they are themselves packages that contain much of the necessary application support. To check this out go to such apps as Safari, Yep, Pixelmator, and many others, do a right-click on them and you'll see a contextual menu that, among other choices, lets you view the package contents. Click on the Contents folder and you'll see all sorts of internal files for that application. To uninstall the application means dragging to the trash and *poof* all the files are gone.

I sometimes wonder if developers even read the info from Apple for developing Mac apps.

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Saturday, January 26 2008 @ 12:00 AM PST