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 LilyPond - 2.12.2-1Automated music notation & engraving system. |
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All Feedback: 1 - 8 of 8
Very, very slow under some circumstances. 
- Version: 2.10.8-1, 1/5/2007 09:20AM PST
(9 of 9 users found this comment useful)
Marnen Laibow-Koser
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- Very, very slow under some circumstances.
All the people that complain about LilyPond ... - Version: 2.8.2-1, 5/11/2006 01:20PM PST
(3 of 7 users found this comment useful)
Ulrich Kapp
... probably never had to engrave complex music in a professional way.
I concede that LilyPond isn't easy to use for the 'first time user', but after a reasonable time of using it, you will be faster than with any other application with a graphical user interface.
And the sheet music produced with LilyPond looks really professional and there is very less you can't do with LilyPond.
I also tried an X-Windows based graphical interface to LilyPond (which produces the LilyPond source code) but I returned to pure LilyPond immediately.
For me, LilyPond is the best music engraving software.
p.s.: I've seen one comment who recommended Finale Notepad instead of LilyPond *LOL* Did you really ever tried to edit a music sheet with many staves and lots of lyrics stanzas?
I concede that LilyPond isn't easy to use for the 'first time user', but after a reasonable time of using it, you will be faster than with any other application with a graphical user interface.
And the sheet music produced with LilyPond looks really professional and there is very less you can't do with LilyPond.
I also tried an X-Windows based graphical interface to LilyPond (which produces the LilyPond source code) but I returned to pure LilyPond immediately.
For me, LilyPond is the best music engraving software.
p.s.: I've seen one comment who recommended Finale Notepad instead of LilyPond *LOL* Did you really ever tried to edit a music sheet with many staves and lots of lyrics stanzas?
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Lilypond is fabulous - Version: 2.8.2-1, 5/10/2006 08:00PM PST
(10 of 10 users found this comment useful)
pianis
Lilypond was started because programs such as Finale, Sibelius, or Overture by default produce a score layout that is well below publication quality. While the majority of musicians might be surprised to hear this, genuinely professional engravers know of the problems and they modify the score to meet their high standards. The occasional element clashes produced by Lilypond are very minor compared to the engraving problems produced by Finale or Sibelius.
I came across a score by Meridian Publishing, Inc. that quite clearly used the default output. Fine for casual use, unacceptable for publication.
Contrary to what zimbop says almost every aspect of Lilypond's output can be modified. Granted, figuring out how is not always very straightforward. But doing things such as adjusting spacing and moving elements to avoid clashes is usually fairly simple.
The high-quality output of Lilypond is due to the fact that they haven't spent any time developing a GUI, but rather focused on researching excellent engraving practices and developing Lilypond to reproduce them automatically. As a composer who takes pride in my scores, I have switched to Lilypond and do not intend to go back.
Lilypond is probably not for the person who likes to print up scores on the computer with a minimum of fuss. But Lilypond is for the composer or musician who is willing to spend a little more time in order to produce a beautiful score. And it really only takes a little more time once you become accustom to Lilypond's input. But it does have a reasonable learning curve.
I came across a score by Meridian Publishing, Inc. that quite clearly used the default output. Fine for casual use, unacceptable for publication.
Contrary to what zimbop says almost every aspect of Lilypond's output can be modified. Granted, figuring out how is not always very straightforward. But doing things such as adjusting spacing and moving elements to avoid clashes is usually fairly simple.
The high-quality output of Lilypond is due to the fact that they haven't spent any time developing a GUI, but rather focused on researching excellent engraving practices and developing Lilypond to reproduce them automatically. As a composer who takes pride in my scores, I have switched to Lilypond and do not intend to go back.
Lilypond is probably not for the person who likes to print up scores on the computer with a minimum of fuss. But Lilypond is for the composer or musician who is willing to spend a little more time in order to produce a beautiful score. And it really only takes a little more time once you become accustom to Lilypond's input. But it does have a reasonable learning curve.
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A big leap in the wrong direction – and an alternative GUI suggestion. - Version: 2.8.2-1, 5/10/2006 10:57AM PST
(6 of 12 users found this comment useful)
zimbop
Try Finale Notepad (also freeware) instead. Totally GUI, free, and the starter program in the series that leads to Finale, the most powerful score writing program of all, and the one used by the majority of professional music engravers.
I really don't like this coding approach. I use BBEdit to write HTML, CSS and PHP by hand, and even I can see that music engraving is one place that you don't want to use code. Music really benefits from GUI, using something like Finale Notepad gives you true WYSIWYG.
Of course there are many text/CLI/non-GUI tools which are essential (bash, vi, pico etc.) but I personally wouldn't put LilyPond in that category, it's heading in the wrong direction IMHO.
One thing that really concerns me about this project is that the developer states "Don't waste time with tweaking the output; LilyPond gets the formatting correct right from the start." As a professional music engraver myself I can tell you that this is very far from true, Lilypond produces clashes of many kinds, there are problems with slurs and note flags colliding with other elements – and there's precious little that you can do about it.
If the developers believe that LilyPond is getting these things right, then it's unlikely that these things will ever be fixed and that's a big problem, or maybe they're just "bending the truth", which is another problem.
IMHO LilyPond promises the Earth but fails to deliver. There is a decided lack of notation samples on their site, why is that? Perhaps it won't match up the exaggerated claims. I understand the need to be enthusiastic about your work, but distorting reality this much just wastes peoples time when the delivery falls way short of the promise.
My advice would be, if you like to tinker with programming and get involved in an exciting project where you can be hands on with development and contribute your own ideas, give LilyPond a go. If you want first class music notation look elsewhere and allow Lilypond to mature into an application that actually delivers what it says - one day.
I really don't like this coding approach. I use BBEdit to write HTML, CSS and PHP by hand, and even I can see that music engraving is one place that you don't want to use code. Music really benefits from GUI, using something like Finale Notepad gives you true WYSIWYG.
Of course there are many text/CLI/non-GUI tools which are essential (bash, vi, pico etc.) but I personally wouldn't put LilyPond in that category, it's heading in the wrong direction IMHO.
One thing that really concerns me about this project is that the developer states "Don't waste time with tweaking the output; LilyPond gets the formatting correct right from the start." As a professional music engraver myself I can tell you that this is very far from true, Lilypond produces clashes of many kinds, there are problems with slurs and note flags colliding with other elements – and there's precious little that you can do about it.
If the developers believe that LilyPond is getting these things right, then it's unlikely that these things will ever be fixed and that's a big problem, or maybe they're just "bending the truth", which is another problem.
IMHO LilyPond promises the Earth but fails to deliver. There is a decided lack of notation samples on their site, why is that? Perhaps it won't match up the exaggerated claims. I understand the need to be enthusiastic about your work, but distorting reality this much just wastes peoples time when the delivery falls way short of the promise.
My advice would be, if you like to tinker with programming and get involved in an exciting project where you can be hands on with development and contribute your own ideas, give LilyPond a go. If you want first class music notation look elsewhere and allow Lilypond to mature into an application that actually delivers what it says - one day.
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What's new in this version? - Version: 2.8.1-4, 4/7/2006 10:58AM PST
(1 of 1 users found this comment useful)
Lickableunix
-Would like to see a blurb on this subject with every patch.
signed,
curious in new orleans
signed,
curious in new orleans
its great to have this software on osx - Version: 2.8.0-2, 3/31/2006 10:12AM PST
(3 of 3 users found this comment useful)
ebriccax
well it doesn't have an extensible gui .. its great to have finally this application package for mac osx .. there are some guis on the linux side (Rosegarden, NoteEdit, Denemo) you could run Denemo with x11 though some might not like that too much .. besides that you could run linux on the mac on a seperate partition.
i do like to have the possibility to write notes in *plain text* .. all the other clumsy formats that need a special program/file format - that also couldnt be programmed with - are just proprietary lock ins imho.
so you get the possibility for *high grade* music notes output which none of these other more ore less costly other applications are capable of (well readability does count) .. isn't that great :)
i do like to have the possibility to write notes in *plain text* .. all the other clumsy formats that need a special program/file format - that also couldnt be programmed with - are just proprietary lock ins imho.
so you get the possibility for *high grade* music notes output which none of these other more ore less costly other applications are capable of (well readability does count) .. isn't that great :)
Lilypond why? - Version: 2.8.0-1, 3/23/2006 12:40AM PST
(1 of 7 users found this comment useful)
ejlmp
This program makes minimal use of a GUI. Writing music by coding by the user is a step backwards in ease of use. Save up $70 for Harmony Assistant 9.1x if you need a pain free route to printing your music. I tried compiling 3 of the coded example and 2 had errors in the Web page examples. Just looking at the examples with all the abstract coding leaves me cold.
Eric
Eric
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- gui suggestions? (3 replies)
Will this version work? - Version: 2.7.7-1, 8/23/2005 06:09AM PST
(0 of 1 users found this comment useful)
macmidiguy
OK, I'll try this version.
Keep your fingers crossed that this version works.
Keep your fingers crossed that this version works.
I just installed Lilypond 2.10.8. It took something like 10 minutes to compile the test file the first time, although it was faster on subsequent attempts (about 1 minute). Will try 2.11.8 if problem persists.
While I'm writing, I thought I'd take a moment to comment on the quality of Lilypond's music engraving. I'm a professional copyist and composer; I've been using Finale for as long as it's existed. The last time I used Lilypond (version 2.4 or so), I found that there were things (can't recall what now) that were easy to do in Finale, but nearly impossible in Lilypond; the reverse was also true. My impression at the time was that Lilypond was very promising, and quite suitable for certain tasks, but that it was not quite ready to replace Finale. I look forward to seeing if that's still true...I sure would like to save the $100 a year I pay for Finale upgrades, and perhaps replace my iBook with a Linux laptop at some point. As it stands, while I can't get rid of Finale quite yet, Lilypond is an excellent free tool, and should be completely adequate for most uses.
Complaints about the lack of a GUI miss the point, I think. The Lilypond team has only worked on the file format and the rendering engine. It would be possible to make a graphical editor that saves Lilypond files; in fact, there have been a few attempts at this already. The last time I used Lilypond, I was using the command-line interface, and it was quite tedious to do the sort of precise positioning that I'm used to in Finale. But the current IDE seems to make that easier, particularly since the notes in the PDF file are linked to their spots in the source code.
One more thing: it bothers me that Lilypond is being marketed partly through inaccurate comparisons with Finale. Many of the complaints about Finale on the website are dead wrong -- the sample output showed collisions that, with the default settings, Finale would have automatically known to avoid (such as the F and flat sign in m. 13). And this was with Finale 2003...current version is now 2007, and there have been many enhancements along the way. Certainly Finale has its problems, but these are not insurmountable. The decisions of any notation program (including Lilypond) will need some tweaking to produce high-quality output. Software just isn't that smart yet (although Lilypond's default decisions are quite good).
This next remark is controversial and speculative, but I might even go so far as to say that until software can make 100% of the right decisions, there may be a benefit to having it not make 99% of the right decisions. After all, if 99% of the score looks fine, I have to look very carefully for that 1% that needs tweaking (and I may not bother if I'm in a hurry), whereas if 80% of the score looks fine, then I know beforehand that I'm going to have to make a final "tweaking pass" before considering the project done. YMMV.
And the G clef in the Feta font looks ugly and amateurish. I suppose I'll have to use a modified font if I want professional-level output.